SAINSBURY'S
AS this thrilling season goes down to the proverbial wire, the stadium debate has also quietly moved into a pivotal phase.
With Knowsley council’s planning decision looming on the horizon - and then the all-important Government call-in response - it will hopefully be sooner rather than later when we know if The Kirkby Project is going to happen.
It will be a blessed relief for many of us.
The constant barrage of claims, counter claims, lies and counter lies - not to mention cameos from players like Development Securities and Bestway - has become tiresome.
If we’re Kirkby-bound, then I’d like to know. If not, then I’d like to know if Keith Wyness has been busy preparing a Plan B in spite of his infamous declaration that, well.....there wasn’t one.
But one stadium story caught my attention and flared a bit of indignation this week. It was written by our industry reporter (and Street-end season ticket holder) Neil Hodgson.
The story was about Sainsbury’s considering building a new stadium for the blues in Walton Hall Park.
Neil reported that the supermarket group held meetings with Liverpool council leader Warren Bradley last August - and although they are not progressing the plans, they did not rule out revisiting them if the Kirkby plan fell through.
The original proposal to build a ground on Walton Hall Park was mooted by Liverpool businessman John Seddon, who set up Mersey Cablevision in the 1980s which was eventually taken over and became Telewest.
Below is an excerpt from the article.
He said: “Sainsbury’s were one of the people interested in the whole concept of Walton Hall Park and took a serious interest, as Tesco have in Kirkby.
“They presented a brochure to myself and Liverpool council.
Mr Bradley told the ECHO today that he rejected the proposal to build on park land but offered the neighbouring Longmoor Lane Industrial Estate as an alternative.
Mr Seddon added: “Following the meeting with (Warren) Bradley Sainsbury’s withdrew, but said if it did raise its head again they would be interested.
“I think Walton Hall Park, even in spite of what Warren Bradley is saying, is a fabulous place for a ground. It is a no-mark park that has trouble with youths on motorbikes and is used by only a small amount of people.�
He also believes Everton is attracting interest as a takeover target by international investors and said: “I think a ground there would be attractive.�
Two things particularly caught my attention;
1) Warren Bradley rejecting the proposal of building on public park land.
OK to be fair to Warren he has always been against this and it wasn’t his administration that gave Liverpool permission for Stanley Park (or refused it to Everton earlier) but the lack of fairness is astonishing.
If Everton ever have a realistic* chance of building a stadium on Walton Hall Park the council surely must be obliged to allow it.
Walton Hall Park is largely under-used and would benefit from a ground without being totally lost. Equally Warren has repeatedly said he doesn't’ want Everton to leave the city and I’m afraid offering some no-mark site on Longmoor Lane in Aintree isn’t good enough.
* The real barrier to Sainsbury’s plan would be whther they could ever match Tesco’s enabling retail development which allegedly makes Kirkby affordable to the blues. I suspect they couldn’t.
2) Everton is attracting interest as a takeover target by international investors.
Could this be the recent, subdued rumours concerning Russian interest? Would any mooted takeover be more likely after we’ve gone to Kirkby or if Kirkby fell through?
It’s interesting stuff and, despite what the club says, the issues are intrinsically linked with David Moyes’ future.
We now know Kirkby will cost us £78m. So far every other option put forward would likely cost us a lot more than that.
But if Kirkby gets de-railed, what are we going to do? As Keith Wyness has said, we can’t afford to do nothing.
There is going to come a point when Goodison simply won’t get its annual safety certificate anymore.
Yet the nagging feeling persists that we may be better following Arsenal's example of building a strong team, worldwife profile and established place in the top five BEFORE parting with the massive stadium bucks.
You only have to look at the fortunes of Coventry, Derby, Southampton, Leicester and Manchester City to see what can happen when clubs try and do it the other way round.
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Greg O'Keeffe
Same as everyone else there's loads to say on this but I've really two main points:
Completley agree with your last comment. As we've said before we'd only realistically fill a new 50,000 seater stadium maybe three times a season. Lets get our house in order on the field first. Every month a new piece of development land is mooted so if Tesco are serious then they will wait or at least ensure the plans are watertight and more importantly in the best interests of both parties for a smooth transition.
We must be a very attractive proposition for investors at present and EFC give the impression of a lapdog at Tescos beck and call.
We Are Everton and we should make any potential investor work FOR our support.
Second point: Viva Drogba.
You say "there comes a point when Goodison won't get it's annual safety certificate any more". Says who? Keith Wyness?
I'm pretty sure he said the same thing about Pittodrie when he was at Aberdeen, and look where they are playing now.
We're told it costs £500K each year to keep Goodison maintained. Are we saying that a second rate 'design and build' stadium in Kirkby will be maintenance fee?
There is too much blind acceptance of the rubbish put out by the club prior to the vote. They said would be 'effectively free' and involve very little debt.
Why believe anything else they said?
Greg, you're in the privileged position of being able to bring information to the masses.
So why not contact the likes of Bestway and ask them to state exactly what they are prepared to offer Everton, at the moment as you say it's all "claims, counter claims, lies and counter lies". According to Tom Hughes on ToffeeWeb, Bestway said that Everton's contribution would be expected to be around £60million.
Also, Why did the Echo choose to sit on the news of Walton Hall Park until election week when the KEIOC website released it back in March?
Speaking of the KEIOC website there is a very good interview with Croke Park's stadium director on there. Maybe some of his comments could be put into print?
I am not sure if I have missed something here, but what is this Russian investment being mentioned? And I thought checking the web every 10 minutes for Everton news would mean I would have my finger on the pulse?!
Also if Wyness et al knew about this potential site on or near Walton Hall Park, and more importantly we could afford it, I don't really grasp why it hasn't been investigated further on an official level (and I don't mean by KEIOC, but please don't take that as a dig at their passionate and loyal work)...
I have always been firmly on the Kirkby side of this argument and never bought into the theory that Wyness and Bill would support the Kirkby project for their own benefit (I don't see how they would benefit on a monetary or personal level if this move was a poor long term plan). However, the chance to stay in the city walls (if there were any) for a similar outlay must be fully investigated by the board and, just as importantly, the same investigations must be FULLY and OPENLY communicated to the supporters, without whom this club would be in the doldrums.
I agree Greg, Goodison cant keep on getting its safety certificate every year, hopefully the move will be resolved soon.
As I understand it Walton Hall Park is now the no.1 favourite from fans if Kirkby ever did fall through, not surprising since its close to our Goodison roots and still in Walton, plus a backer like Sainsbury's does provide some heavyweight backing - though as you say they are only talking about a store not the type of retail enabling that's on offer in Kirkby so the club probably wont be able to afford WHP.
Kirkby looks like its happening and as a former 'no' voter i've got mixed feelings, however i've increasingly come round to supporting Kirkby since more facts about it have came out.
KEEP EVERTON IN OUR CITY !
Also, while I'm in the 'ground move' mood, what has Mr Bradley actually ever done to try and pursuade Everton to remain in the city?
He has done some talking in the press, but never offered a realistic alternative to Kirkby.
The latest news that he has dismissed Walton Hall Park as a possible site firms up in my mind that he is one of the very few blues I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw him. I understand he has the non-football and non-Everton supporting merseysiders (are there any) to appease, but he has not flexed any political muscle or gone the extra mile in trying to keep the blues in the city and that, to me at least, casts doubt over his true agenda.
With the poor level of confidence the public have in the council at the moment I can't imagine using a poorly maintained public park for an Everton stadium would damage his image in the eyes of already disgruntled merseyside inhabitants any further.
In fact it may improve.
Maybe this fact will make 'true blue' Bradley stand up and show us some real action.
I'd love Walton Hall Park personally because if the reds can build a stadium on a north Liverpool park then we should be able to as well, shame on cllr Bradley for ruling it out, the cities two clubs are different from other private companies and an exception should be made for them in allowing a park build - after all they've allowed the reds to.
Instead we get offered a small roundabout that no-one seriously believes is big enough for a stadium, or at least we'd be talking circa £350m for one there.
One other thing on WHP, though I suspect most Evertonians would see it as THE ideal location for the reasons an earlier contributor mentioned, I wonder what KEIOC's stance on it would be?
I get the impression the keioc fanatics only want Goodison redevelopment or a city centre site, while most Evertonians I speak to would much prefer WHP in Walton.
If a politician told you a vote for him, meant free beer for you, you might vote for him.
If however he got into power and you found out the beer wasn't free, do you think your response would be A) "What a bullshltting LIAR" or B) "Well the price for the beer isn't all THAT bad!"
The sane, I suggest, would respond..A
So how come there is even one person out there defending the board?
Because this is EXACTLY what they have done.
It's not complicated, they've promised one thing and now try to deliver something TOTALLY different.
I'm disgusted with the lot of them and will NEVER watch Everton FC play in Kirkby.
(still they won't need me with the 20,000 new blues who are promised to magically appear at 'Kenwright's Folly')
Ian, if you read the KEIOC website you will discover that no site in Liverpool is favoured over another. In fact, the Keep Everton In Our City name says just that. It was KEIOC which brought the proposed WHP development out into the open.
KEIOC have always said that thier main aim to stop the club being taken beyond the city boundary.
and Barry, how you can be more in favour of this Kirkby deal now you know more about it is beyond me. Have you not even read, or understood, the transport plans?
Hello,
As an Everton fan, I want what is best for the club.
A new ground is that what we really need? I say no
We need an investor to buy our club so we can decided were we want our ground not some supermarket,
We should just stop all this nonsense it’s like the king docks all over again
BW and KW making a mockery out of Everton F.C.
if they want to build a new ground then put the money on the table stop using other peoples money or the cheap option.
My finally point I don’t want just any investor I want some one who cares about Everton F.C. doesn’t have to be a support just some one who ant going to do a Liverpool or man city.
Any way rant over but I don’t know why we always try to do things on the cheap?
Did arsenal have this problem? No
They couldn’t buy any players for a while
When the stadium was getting built and it did cost them but look at their stadium now something to be proud of me thinks
And their football is pretty good to, how ironic we will be seeing a that stadium very soon
Hopefully not the football duo
I bet most arsenal fans are happy with the stadium after leaving their great home of Highbury
Regards,
Stephen
Walton Hall park would be ideal as it would be "one in the eye " for all these Kopites who think they now own the city with their "one city-one club " car stickers and it would rid the park of all the unsavoury hoodies that currently terrorize the locals. Go for it and lets see what the council say as to why we couldn,t do it after them getting the go ahead for Stanley Park .